Thrown Into the Unknown: What happens when there's no backup plan?

This week on Brains Gone Bold, Maria and Jeanine sit down with Patrice Matamoros for a conversation about courage, confidence, creativity, and why some of life's biggest lessons come from stepping into the unknown.

The conversation starts with a story from Patrice's teenage years, when she was taken into the wilderness and expected to find her way. That experience sparked a discussion about what happens when there's no perfect plan, no guarantees, and no one coming to rescue you.

From there, the conversation explores everything from fear and failure to gratitude, leadership, and the importance of staying curious. Patrice shares why she's a big believer in "crashing spectacularly," how boredom can fuel creativity, and why so many of us spend too much time waiting until we feel ready.

Along the way, Maria, Jeanine, and Patrice talk about "main character energy," scarcity versus abundance, and the stories we tell ourselves that keep us stuck.

One of the biggest takeaways? Confidence doesn't come from knowing exactly what to do. It comes from trusting yourself enough to take the next step anyway.

It's thoughtful, funny, honest, and full of those moments that make you stop and think, "I needed to hear that."

If you've ever been afraid to take the leap, this conversation might be the nudge you've been waiting for.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Brain's Gone Bold. We're happy to have you here with us as always. And today we have a very special guest we're happy to have as well. Joining us in the studio is Patrice Manamoros. Patrice's history, experience, background is very interesting, and your mindset and how you approach your work and your personal life is also very interesting. So we're excited to have you here and kind of dive into a little bit about your story and what makes you tick.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Happy to have you. Well, I'm really happy to be here. Thank you so much, both of you, for including me in this.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

We're so grateful.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

So for those listening, can you tell us a little bit about what you do and kind of whatever highlights of your story you would like to share to get us started learning about you?

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Sure. Actually, I want to talk just a little bit about uh what I'm doing right now. And I'm the regional president for junior achievement of Western Pennsylvania. And I've been in this role for over five years now. Wow. And prior to that, I was the CEO of the of an organization called P3R, which is responsible for putting together the Pittsburgh sporting goods Pittsburgh Marathon.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

So the I guess my experience and skill set is interesting in the sense that, you know, who does a startup for a nonprofit? Right. So I'd say the Pittsburgh Marathon, and we brought it back from uh six, it was really five years plus in hiatus, and it had completely gone away from the city. And I was asked to help bring it back. So Do you mind me asking like why did it go away?

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Like what happened?

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Uh well, there was a title sponsor and everything was managed out of one particular um corporation. And when that corporation made a decision to support another major event, wow, sure. Um, the marathon kind of went to the wayside at that point in time. Right. And I think there just wasn't enough interest. And then in order to run a marathon in a major American city, it's uh several million dollars. So you had to have quite a lot of fundraising ability to keep it going. So yeah, so I started that on my credit card at the time because there was no funding. And were you just really interested in making it happen?

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Are you a marathoner and like, well, I want this to happen.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

It is, yeah. So it's serendipitous. I was a runner in Montana. Okay. I was a state champion. I got a full ride scholarship to Arizona. Oh. I ran there. I transferred to the University of Florida, and my career was cut extremely short when I kind of was on a long run, turned off a curb the wrong way and torn my labrum, which was in my hip, yeah, and ended up needing a hip uh replacement. And you were so young. Yeah. So my goodness. Yeah. So that was when I got asked to to do that, it was like I could kind of be involved in running again. So it was really an uh serendipitous for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

So you came into it with a natural passion for what you were doing to begin with.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

I did, I did. And it was great because you know, I'd always been a runner in races, but I had never run a race as from an organizational perspective. Okay. So wow, I was a lot to learn. Yeah. And I had less than a year to raise a million dollars in order to put this marathon on in the city of Pittsburgh.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Wow. Wow. And so how did you know what to do to go about raising that kind of money in that short period of time? Was it connections that you had, experience that you had, being resourceful? How did you go about it?

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Well, yeah, I'd say initiative and resourcefulness are really key to who I am and where I come from and how I was raised. So and I also, before I had kids, I was in a for-profit sector. I work for a division of Ford Motor Company. So my experience was in major sales, like $50 million accounts. And I, so I figured that I would be able to raise the money. I just didn't know how to run a race. So it was about, you know, for me, I was consulting in the area and working as a volunteer with kids in tow. So I had enough, I had connections and contacts. So I immediately, and it's such an exciting thing too. The Pittsburgh Marathon started in 1985 and it went out in 2000, I think it was three or four. Okay. And basically had really, really uh great reputation.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

I I mean, it's such a great city. Yeah. And to be able to, you know, I am not a runner. I don't know if that's a surprise to you, but I'm not a runner. And to be able to, you know, just drive or walk through Pittsburgh is so cool. The different neighborhoods, all this stuff. Yeah. And so to me, like I think marathons in cities are iconic. And so to not have one feels like, how do they not have one? So pretty cool. Oh my, I'm just my mind is she had meant Maria, of course, have mentioned it to me, but to understand your background that brings oh, which by the way, go gators. Um I can't be a Floridian without saying that um at UF, but to have that understanding and then go, yeah, I'm resourceful. I can make this happen. Like, where does that come from? And I also have to acknowledge the fact that we recognize we did not give you a full intro. We didn't allow you to go immediately. That's just bounced on you. So sorry about that. That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

No, no, no. So yeah, I think it was just um kind of half crazy on my part too, right? Yeah, because you kind of have to be thinking back on it, you know, it was a risk. I put it on my credit card. I had no doubt I would raise the money, uh, would figure it out. But, you know, people have pointed out like, wow, that was a really big risk you took personally. That's right. Um, mind you, I got paid back because I ended up closing the deals that were on the table, ended up bringing on more partnerships. And then, of course, you know, the runners came.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

So awaited a very successful event.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Yeah, yeah. So out of the gates year one, having less than a year to pull it off and not knowing what to do, I was able to quickly gather enough information and worked other marathons across the United States to see what they are doing, how are they doing it. And then I was starting to gather resources of people from those marathons that we could enlist to help us with ours so that I didn't start from scratch. Sure. And it was it didn't have to be mine. It was something I did as ours. So it was really serving the community and pulling this together. And so yeah, so it was a it was a risk, but it really paid off. We didn't know what to expect on runners. The largest marathon previously was about 6,000 runners. And so I said, well, we'll go for 5,000. And if we did 5,000, that would, you know, be really great. And the board kept saying, no, no, no, don't put that number out there because just in case you don't reach it, then you're gonna look like a failure. And I'm like, but I'm a real goal-oriented person, but I need a number. So I'm making my goals, I'm writing them down and they're visible. And one board member would come in and see the 5,000. He'd erase it every time. I told you, do not say that number out loud. I'm like, it's on my board. I wouldn't say it, but that's my goal. Writing an invisible ink. Exactly. So we and made it to, we had it was January one, January 1, prices went up, and the marathons were on the first weekend of May. So that's a huge time for runners to sign up. So we had a landslide of registrations coming in January, and we were only projecting like, you know, 5,000. It went to 7,500. And then we're like, oh my gosh, we're full. We have prepared for 5,000. We stopped it at 7,500. And then we had all these runners uh on Facebook coming after you. I want in. Why can't I go? Well, I want in. And and I had uh Allegheny Conference had given us a cube. I had one cube to work in that year. And so I remember even runners coming there and bringing flowers and saying, Will you please let me come? Yeah. They were begging you to get in. Begging me and showing me their medals. And so I did a post and basically said, you know what, we're gonna, we're gonna expand it to 10,000. And we had a wait list, so we were able to expand it to 10,000. But that came with, oh my goodness, we have to update. I mean, that's live.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Infrastructure, like from an operation standpoint, you know, first of all, I can't, and I I want to talk about like what led you down the path of I can do this because I think there's so many people that have these big and wild dreams and just feel like it's just it's insurmountable. So I want to go back there. But from an infrastructure perspective, 5,000 and then doubling that of people and just boots on the ground, runners, and then support staff in that, you know, in those walkways, in the whatever it's not just the runners, it's all the stuff that goes on putting this on. Like, holy crap.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

Yeah, yeah. It was it was a lot. And that's when I I think when we got to race day, there was just a skeleton crew. Um, I'd enlisted a lot of my friends from from Can't even imagine. We I was a stay-at-home mom for like the first formative years of my kids' life. Right. And so I knew a lot of moms who had who had chosen also to stay home, but they also wanted to do something exciting. And so it was they came in, and so these women were and moms get stuff done. They do. And these are professional women, you know, who had just taken a time off to take care of stu their kids. And so uh it was kind of like I always compare it, like I'm uh Dorothy on the Yellow Brick Road, gathering my Tin Man, my scare row, and trying to make it happen. But I'd say that it's a collection and a combination of multiple people coming together for a just cause.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

So it's amazing, an amazing story.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

It really is.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

It feels huge. Yeah. I'm really interested in similar to what Janine was talking about, but the the idea of resourcefulness and knowing that not only can you do this or believing that you can do this, but having the means to figure it out. Where do you think that came from for you? And you mentioned kind of how you were how you grew up. Is there anything that you can share with us about that that you think led to this?

SPEAKER_02 10:29

Yeah, definitely. It to totally tied into everything here. Is I was born in California and then went right off to Montana. I was raised in Montana, and um it was we were in the country. Uh we were um basically my dad was a Vietnam vet, and we were really survivalists. We chopped our own wood for heat. Uh, we also grew our food, we hunted, we fished. Oh wow. So you had to be resourceful. We were, yeah, we had to be resourceful, but you also gain a lot of competency and confidence knowing that you can take care of yourself. And we worked really, really hard. We never had vacations. Our whole summer was spent preparing for the winter. Yeah. So it would be going to the mountains in the summer to chop wood, load it up, and then come back on load it every single weekend. Wow. And my dad was hardcore. Uh, he wanted us to be able to fend for ourselves. So he would on these trips like to get wood, he would be like, uh, you know, it was up to us to catch fish to eat. And if we didn't eat, he brought MREs. Wow. MREs. So we were really motivated to catch fish. Right. And they even had little cigarettes in them. So my gosh, that's not the fish, the MREs.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

The MRE change.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Not the fish, yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

So we like listen, my dad taught me how to change a tire, and I thought I was pretty cool at the resourceful, but that is that is small potatoes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Now, when you were uh growing up and experiencing that, did you have an appreciation for it in the moment or did you resent it in any way?

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Oh, I was always told my mom, as soon as I can move out of that moving out, I'm out of here. It's hard, it's hard work. You have, you know, there is it is work around the clock. And to romanticize, like if you watch Yellowstone or you watch these Dallas cattle ranches, and movie stars are showing this amazing lifestyle. And it's, I can say firsthand, it is not that lifestyle because it's work. You're working all the time. And I think that helped because it became, you know, your work is your vocation, it keeps you alive, it teaches you a different thing about work so that you're not looking for, you're looking to survive. Yeah, yeah. He even one time, um, you know, my dad wanted us to understand and learn survival skills. So we went to the Bob Marshall Wilderness and we really didn't have any food. Uh, and we used topography topographical maps to navigate our way through the wilderness. And I remember the first night he'd brought one little tiny bag. It was a freeze-dried bag of chili mac for four of us. And we had hiked all day and we were so hungry. Yeah. And so we were like really motivated because he's like, What are we gonna do? Tomorrow we're gonna go find fish. So we all got the map, and I remember we were hungry, and there are these little strawberries, and they're like tiny strawberries in the wild, and we were all fighting over this is my area to get strawberries, this is your area. Yeah, and we went to bed early because we were starving.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

And so we woke up and hiked so far to get fish. Yeah. So you said there was four of you. So your dad, your mom, and then you had a brother or a sister? No, it was my dad, my brother, and my sister and I. Okay, so three, and what was the age range?

SPEAKER_02 14:02

So we were all like in our teens, our early teens. I would say between middle school to high school. Well, but we weren't like your typical teens either, right? Like our teens ignore us, they're on their screen.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Well, and I'm picturing these snarky teens, but you're right. I mean, you guys were not groomed in that way.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Oh no, we're not spoiled at all. We were like our Christmas was kidding, our underwear for the year and our snowmobile suits and all of the staples. So yeah, so it's just okay, this is what we're doing. So it creates this flexibility and how you think about things. Um and this is the dad that's here that you're visiting. Yes, okay. I was just telling him yesterday, I was like, Dad, I'm gonna talk about the Bob Marshall when you left us without food. And and we started laughing and talking about it because he he just thought it he just laughed a lot about it. It was so funny now. Yeah, yeah. Well, we didn't even think we were just trying to eat. I mean, we were trying to get that survival mode, right? Yeah. There's no water pumps you're drinking from creeks, and it's just a totally different world.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

I watch survivalist shows. Yeah, and they always do things like there's one on Netflix, I can't remember what it's called, out in the wild one. Yeah. And I mean, they just drop them, and whoever outlasts, you don't know the other people. And they always talk about drinking like creek water and that you have to boil it first. And some people are like, I don't have water, I'm just gonna drink it, and just and then they start like vomiting and whatever. And so I'm thinking about you, like, we don't have a pump. Like, what do you do?

SPEAKER_02 15:34

We just have our little cup and we put it under a waterfall that's free-flowing, not in still water, and to gather water. But it was kind of crazy to think about it now because we all have water bottles right now. I know. We would never go hiking without a water bottle.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Accustomed to this easier lifestyle. And yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

And it was more like, oh, we'll just find water along the way.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

And and so um at what point did that become something that you feel grateful for? Because you're talking about it from that lens right now, it seems. Like you're grateful for that experience. Yes. But growing up, maybe not so much.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

Yeah, I think what it does, you become appreciative of what you're able to do and how you're able to still survive and you become really more confident about taking care of yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

I can I can do this. I got this.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

I did it. Exactly. And so surviving in the wilderness, after you've done that, running a marathon that doesn't feel good.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Yeah. We have running water, okay. I'm in. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

And we can do this. Totally different kind of wilderness there. Yeah. So absolutely. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

And you mentioned that, you know, you used to say, as soon as I'm old enough, I'm getting out of here. So how, how and when did you?

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Like, I think it was three days after I graduated. I was 17. I graduated early. And my dad's like, uh, you got to go find a job and move. And I had a full scholarship. So I ended up moving for that summer, ended up having to go find a job, and I got a job at Glacier Park. So I ended up moving out at 17 and really just surviving. And he used to say, you know, bears kick their offspring off to get out of their den, to go bend for themselves. And yeah, you know, I think he thought he was giving, he was helping us because absolutely. And in some ways he did. Yeah, but uh, on a different way, but it works hard. It could have done a different way. And we could have we were a little uh, you know, upset about that for a while because I'm sure you know, you go to college and it's on you.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

Yeah, and there's and you're sure there's your roommates or your suite mates or whatever, and you see the kind of lives that are very different from your own, I'm sure. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

And I think about 17. My son is 17. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

And you imagine kicking him out.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

I'm not ready to kick him out.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

You won't and this is not a dig on you or but you didn't prepare him the way her daughter. I did not, right? And so to that would be so unkind and unfair. And I'm not saying it right, but you at least had skills that you know Vincent doesn't it's a new fault of his own. Oh my god. I'm just like flummox.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Holy cow.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah. So I'm so curious because as I've gotten to know you a little bit over the past year, one of the things for me that is so interesting is kind of your your mindset. And we've talked about this, which is very much a mindset of positivity, right? And so I would love to dig into that a little bit with you. And I'm coming at this from a personal angle because as someone who struggles with that, where it's not as easy for me to think positively. I am constantly working on it. And when I see that in you, it's inspiring. And I'm so curious about kind of where that comes from. Is that something you've had to develop over the years? Do you have to work at it? Does it come naturally to you? Can you talk a little bit about kind of your mindset?

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Yeah, I think it's um, you know, the choice, right? You get a choice, and I think you when you have a hard, you know, your upbringing is a little different than what most it's a little rougher. It's a little more, you know, you're working really hard growing up and doing everything, and you you can make a choice. And we always used laughter and humor in our family. And we would find things funny. And then um I ran. Uh, I was in cross-country and track, and I remember going to races because and on the way to races, listening to positive, you know, stuff on the radio and then uh reading books. I read a lot. And the magic of thinking big, I think really set a like the magic of thinking big was a huge book for me growing up because you could change how you thought. And I've read it, reread it. I've loved that book. And so I think that was it because you know, I I was in high school not popular. It was a tiny high school. I was only I graduated with 17 kids. Oh wow. So it was really rural. And I was not a popular person. And then even when I ran, that was a way that I created identity, created confidence, and I was winning because I was running so much.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

And yeah. So, so going back to that power of positivity and mindset, your running career was suddenly cut short. Yes after that was such a big part of your identity and your confidence building and everything. How did you cope with that when you came to the realization that I'm no longer going to be a runner?

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Right. Your identity definitely changed because you're not a runner anymore.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Right. And I think about it, Janine and I actually were just, I think, talking about this the other day, where you know, I played sports my entire life growing up through high school. And then I graduated high school and that was it. It was just over. And for years after that, I was felt like I was grieving the loss of that part of me that no longer existed. And so did you go through that? Or and or how did your mindset play into being able to move forward from it?

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Yeah, I guess it's like look at, you know, it was a huge bummer. It was really hard. And I looked at it from the perspective of, okay, so I I can't do this. It's bad, like not good for me mentally. But at the same time, what did I learn? What tools did I pick up from all the things I've done? And what if I applied the same philosophy to work and business? Right. Because if you think about business and you think about being an athlete, I mean, you've got your long days, you gotta get your long days in. You you gotta you have your, you know, your speed days that you get in, you're, you know, really strategic and tactical. And if you approach work like a training and you're training for a race and you are training with that intent, you'll succeed. So I started practicing with that immediately. Uh but I never ever Saw myself and that's I had a bigger vision for myself too.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Thinking, I want to, you know, I want to do more, I want to be more. And even when I was waitressing at Red Lobster, I was literally talking to that, talking to my manager saying, I want to do more, because I was still in school and I was doing communications and PR and marketing. And I said, I want to do more. I'm going to be, I want to be the media ambassador for Lobster Fest. And he's like, okay, if you can talk the higher beings up to it. And so General Mills owned Red Lobster. So I started dealing just reaching out to their marketing director and talking to him and saying, Can I come and be the spokesperson? And two years later, he finally said, Okay, Patrice, you can be the lobster. You're the lobster fest girl. And it worked. And I would go on their, you know, the morning show and talk about all the features and the lobsters and dot, dot, dot. And then it became a thing where they said, Oh, this is really cool. And so then I would do that every year. But I never saw myself as just this. I wanted to be more, more, more. And there's nothing wrong with that. I just wanted to do some in business.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

So there's a there's this thought process that some people have, and then others just can't figure out. I don't know if it's resourcefulness, I'm not sure what it is. But what you just described is obviously persistence. Yes. Because it took two years for that to come to fruition. And then they were like, this was pretty good. Yeah. But you didn't stop there. You didn't go, okay, well, I've reached my goal. Now I'm done. Instead, there was this continued, and there is this continued search for more. I and when I was in grad school, my grad school paper to get in was titled, I want more. And so, and I have some of that thirst and drive, certainly not to the extent that you have. But when I think about the kids, her kids, I've got nieces and nephews that are at that, you know, critical point in life. And, you know, you don't want to see them beat down. You don't want to hand it to them either, because if we just hand it to them, it's not, there's no lesson in that. And so, what do you think if you were to like tease through the lessons that you've learned over time and say there's there's this one thing that if I were to give my younger self advice, it would be this.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

But is there something that you're like Yeah, I think you're mentally capable of accomplishing anything with action behind it. And I think that if you can't be frozen in place by indecision, you have to start with just one thing and then just another thing. It's like again, you compare it to uh being an athlete, you your first run or your first workout is awful. Yes, it is and you have to get and you have to, but if you're diligent with that action, you it will eventually not be awful. You'll eventually have what you want and be who you want, but you have to stick with it and you have to keep going, understanding it's really hard and it's not gonna feel good all the time. And it's you're not gonna feel like doing it all the time. So it's just starting somewhere and taking that step. Baby steps, and then another step. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

One of the coolest things you said when you asked Patrice about, you know, what do you do after you realize this running career is no longer the thing that I've currently set my and you see, you channel it into something else. I think about so I've got two nephews who play hockey and you know, they both want to achieve more in their hockey careers. We all know that professional athletes, the people that reach the top, it's like 1%. It's this very small number. And so, you know, I want them to hear this from you. I want less than listening, you're they've got to listen to this shit because being able to channel that. I've obviously there's disappointment. You're not saying that you were disappointed and it was a it was definitely shook you up. But then you go, okay, how do I take this and parlay it into something else instead of stopping here and wallowing in this, you know, to channel that. So they have to Tobin and Aiden, this is this is the thing.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

Well, yeah, and it's also, I think the key that would be the other thing is, you know, putting yourself into out of your mind and saying this is hard and the self-talk talk that's negative, but make yourself a character. If you're reading about yourself in a book, how would you want your main character to act? Right. So your main character just gets a below delivered saying you're not gonna run at the level you thought you were gonna run in. So if you're reading about yourself, are you gonna want to throw a temper tantrum and read about your character? Oh, you know, getting caught up in the woes of their misery and pity, and then also or turning. That's a terrible book. Right. Exactly. And you're not gonna want to read about that character because it's like, ooh, and so if you place yourself as your main character and you're reading about yourself and how you're reacting, and how do you want your readers to see your main character? And I think that's the key too.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

How would you define yourself as the character in your book?

SPEAKER_02 27:09

It depends on the day. Okay. So that's the other key is um, I think it's your life, it's your rules, it's your game, right? So if you allow other people to make your life rules and what and to play by play tell you what your game is, you're never gonna be satisfied. And your game may not include what their idea of what you should be doing is. But if you are listening to your inner self and going in the path that you need to because it's you and you're confident in your ability, then it doesn't matter what other people think. And that's the other big, big piece of I think everything is you sit there and sometimes people are not in favor of what you're doing and you get you get outcry about you know what their your what is your intent? Well, here's your what your impact is, you ruined my life or whatever. And you just have to know you're acting in the way that you can.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Yeah, I think this ties in a little bit too. We just uh we were doing an episode on kind of shame and embarrassment and you know, that sort of thing, and that whole idea of we kind of walk around constantly worried about what other people are thinking and their judgment of us and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Shame doesn't belong with us, it's on something else.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Yeah, yeah. And it takes so much courage too. As you were talking, I was thinking through whenever you were reaching out to General Mills, like the amount of courage you had to do that. It's huge.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

I mean, red lobster is huge, right? So General Mills, it's huge. And to think, okay, I'm just gonna call General Mills.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

And I just kept calling them and writing them. And that was before email too. Right. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

So you had to do pen to paper and actually put it in the mail and send something like it's crazy. I may have crazy wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

It is, but like even with um when I was still just working, like volunteering uh with kids in tow, I was talking to a friend of mine from Madison Square Garden who was in Pittsburgh. She was working probably in it working remotely in those days. That was not she traveled a lot with the Roquettes and she was and I said to her, I was like, Have you ever thought about getting involved coming to Pittsburgh? Would the Roquettes ever come to Pittsburgh? She goes, actually, we're working on that plan right now, and there's going to be an announcement, and we are. And I had been volunteering for a nonprofit, and I said, Oh, would you do would you be willing to do a sneak peek a dress rehearsal practice for a charity before the open? And she's like, that's really interesting. I think that has a great twist to it. And so they agreed that they would do this. And but I had to sell out the facility, the theater, and I needed to raise over, I think it was $80,000. So she invited, and I was like, I don't even know what I'm gonna do. Yeah, but I got to figure it out somehow. She invited me to the press conference, and I went and I introduced myself to every single person at the press conference and ended up meeting uh a representative from Smith Barney at the time and said, Would you be willing to support a charitable effort for a sneak peek, a dress rehearsal, and it's a private VIP event before it kicks off? And he actually said yes. And but I had to shake every hand. Yeah, that's kind of what you have to be willing to do. You have to put yourself into character. This is your character for the day. You can't think about what fear you have and you're embarrassed to go up. And what are you talking about? I had no pitch deck, no anything. Yeah, just sold it the dream. Yes. That's it. Sold the dream.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Let's talk about this some more. So um, when you say put yourself into character, so you present to me as someone who's very authentic. Oh, I love this. And so, and we talk about this a lot, but and when you say put yourself into character, does that feel in any way to you as inauthentic?

SPEAKER_02 31:11

No, because I have to think about my character has integrity. Okay. But it it's not maybe gonna look like what it looks like in the movies, right? Like when you're reading a book and you're envisioning your character in your book, again, you're your own heroine. And what are you doing? And I think that is probably a key is uh organizing a charitable event for a nonprofit becomes a just cause that people are because it's not self-serving, you're doing it on behalf of a worthy cause.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Yeah, and it's those like core values that you carry with you, no matter what quote unquote character you're playing exactly, which allows you to always feel like you're doing this from the from the point of being you.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Yeah. And it also sounds like to me the character that you play is the best version of yourself.

SPEAKER_03 31:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Right? It's not being somebody else, right? It's the best version of yourself. Yes, it's the one that enters the room confidently, it's the one that understands what your end goal is, right? And that's what you're working toward. And so you can't bring that insecurity with you. You can't bring all of those things that stays outside. The character today doesn't have those things. And I think that's amazing that you can actually channel that. I was thinking about the conversation with Katie yesterday. So my niece, um, we have her on the show, she's 19, and she's amazing and poised and just described as impressive. And one of the things that she said that was so prevalent, because we were really trying to get at like it's different now to grow up than it was when we were growing up. And you know, what would you want grown-ups to know about this thing? And one of the things she said is because of social media, the cancel culture for people her age is so huge and there's so much pressure with that. And I think about this character that you become, again, just the best version of yourself that doesn't care about that. Like I'm still going forward. This is my goal. This is for this current phase of my life. It's not my end goal, it is my current goal. Right. And so if I can be this character that doesn't care about this cancel culture because that's not part of my story. Right. That's not the way the story is going to be written. Right. It's an amazing gift to be able to help somebody to believe in not only the story, but themselves and the character they're they're working toward.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Yes. And I'm I can't help but think about when we use the context of the character piece. Um, Janine and I have this back and forth kind of disagreement, if you want to call it that, about the idea of fake it until you make it. Because I'm a supporter. She's a supporter. And I usually come at it from the angle of like, no, because that's not being real, you know. And I've started to kind of understand her aspect of it or her perspective. And what you're talking about allows me to do that some more, which is even if I have these fears, insecurities, whatever it might be, no, not today. You know, I'm gonna put that, you know, on the back burner for the moment. I'm gonna be the best version of myself. And that doesn't necessarily mean faking it.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

No, it's leaving your ego out because you're attached to things and outcomes when you have ego, right? Yep. And you have self-interest in ego. You overthink things too much with ego. So it's the detachment of your ego, knowing that you're gonna do the right thing for what needs to happen at this moment. Absolutely. Yeah. And guess what? It may fail, but at the end of the day, you tried it and now you know more. And now you can move beyond that. So it's making those decisions and acting as your character. And when you you have a crisis moment and you're going, what is the anatomy of a crisis?

SPEAKER_03 34:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

So you have to have this personal crisis in your life. But how do you get through your crisis? You have to see beyond the crisis because the crisis will keep you frozen. And you have to know that everybody goes through crisis. So I would look at like major, you know, like at this point, you see spectacular crashes, right? Where key people fail and they have to get up every day, look in the mirror, knowing people are out to get them or not liking them or downing them. So you really have to go and move beyond that. Yes. Yes, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

And you know, one of the things, Maria, for first of all, I think you you, Patrice, put great voice to um and and to me made it come very lifelike. When I think of the fake it till you make it, what I couldn't articulate was the you're still the same person, right? The thing that you're faking is that you're not insecure, that you're not, you're not lacking confidence or whatever, but everything else is still the authentic you. That that's a that's like the light bulb for me right now. It is.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

It is because I've always thought of the fake it till you make it piece is like I'm going in pretending that I'm not who I am. And that is kind of makes me think that, okay, then I'm what I'm saying is I am someone who's not confident, insecure, fearful.

SPEAKER_04 36:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

And that's not that's not necessarily true, nor should I want that to be my identity. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

Right. You know, I wrote down have main character energy.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

Yes. Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

So in in every situation, particularly, you know, high pressure ones, you know, main character energy is what we're you know shooting for.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Yeah. So you're controlling the freight train in your mind, right? Because it can go it's coming. It can and it goes off the track sometimes. Exactly. You're like, whoa, drive it somewhere different, not down the mountains. Not today. Yeah. Exactly. But then you have to work backwards from disaster, then, right? So if you're afraid to move and then you're going, well, what happens if you don't move? And what happens if you move forward and it becomes a disaster, then how do you provide the desert the amount of disaster it becomes? And how do you limit the amount of failure you will feel, right? Right. And if you go in unabatly, just wreck like cautious, cautiously, you're never gonna get the full intent or the make the full extent of what you wanted to do. So you might as well go in and crash. I always say it's like a triple LUTS every day. And I crash spectacularly every day, and oh, I learned from that one. Right. Because that's what it makes great stories. Yeah, absolutely. Later. It's not now, it's later. That and I with the marathon, there is always with navigating many people through city streets, and there's many, many opportunities for complete failure for complete chaos with so many volunteers, so many people, spectators, runners, and our staff, I noticed, you know, they would just lose their minds on little things towards race weekend that didn't go just right, right? Or somebody barks out a demand because of fear and creates chaos within the our team. And I'd say, hey, something, you know, it's managing that disaster up front. So right before race weekend, I went through the series of emergency actions. Here's where ambulances are, here's this, give, you know, really talk through crisis planning and management. And I'd say, and for all those little things that happen, make sure you video it or take a picture so that we can talk about it later and laugh. Right. And so they used to have these contests where oh uh, you know, so and so took his, you know, the man lift and backed it into the city trash and just crunched it. And we'd have pictures that would be our our wall of pictures or a dumpster fire at our storage shed. And it went from being, oh my gosh, this is a disaster into comedy material. This is this great story to tell when we get it back together.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Yes. What a great way to diffuse that potential fireball.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

Oh my goodness, I think that's amazing so much. And I know you were talking about using laughter to kind of get through things and you did that growing up, and so you can bring that into like your professional life with the team. Yeah. Yes, yes. That's a great tool. And that also creates an environment where they're not afraid of those things happening as much. And so from a perspective of your team not being afraid to fail. Right. Right. Because they know that at the end of it, we're gonna come back together and we're gonna laugh about it or we're gonna learn from it or whatever that is. You're not going to necessarily be punishing them for what happened. Exactly. Yes, yeah. So, how do you how do you carry all of this into your role as a leader of the organization that you're with today, or even even at the marathon?

SPEAKER_02 39:48

Yeah. Well, even like for today, what it does, because again, I went through rapid, like it was a crazy, there's a lot of stuff that goes on in a marathon and in planning that nobody understands. So when, you know, I got to a point where I just got burnt out and had grown the event to be uh, you know, this major event in the city, and I had prepared the next team to take over. And I was like, I it's time for me to get out of the way. I created, you know, a great legacy with this event, and it's time for the next people to pick up the torch. So I ended up looking, you know, then that was like right before COVID, it was 2019. Oh boy. So I was consulting with other marathons across the United States because I was really good at pulling ancillary revenue streams, diversifying revenues, looking, you know, organizational processes and systems and in operations. And so I was working with these other events, some were global events, some were uh national events and local events. And then COVID happened and I lost all those contracts within three weeks. So I was looking at what am I gonna do next? I always want to do something that's made out that's meaningful. And coming from rural Montana, I didn't have the best education. Um, my algebra teacher at the time told me I didn't need to know math. I was a girl, and I literally had to take uh remedial courses to get into college classes when I got my scholarship because I was not prepared. Sure. And so I, you know, I ended up that became a huge thing for me is education. Is when I got to college, a whole new world opened up for me and I was so absorbing everything, learning everything. And I did go through all the way up to all calc two, and then sent back my transcript to the the math teacher and said, Girls can do math. Good for you. So I love that to get a response. No, so so I from there was like, well, education is that other thing for me. And I started looking at other education, and I feel like the energy you put into something and put out there is really important. It's gonna come back to you. Yes, and that's another reason to be positive, right? Because if I had a negative attitude about surviving in the Bob Marshall wilderness and hunting and fishing and planting corn and potatoes and all the things, I would have just curled up in a ball and just have had a miserable life.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Well, and if you believed the algebra teacher that girls can't do math, it becomes that self-fulfilling prophecy. So instead you went, Yes, I can. Uh-huh. And you and you went hard.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

You used it as a challenge. Yes. To challenge you. You're not accepting this as a as your main character, doesn't accept that she can't do math.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

I just, I just I I want to keep coming back to this because I'm still so interested. And it's somewhat of a nature versus nurture conversation. Because do you feel like you always had that in you? That belief in yourself, belief that there's more, desire for more, positivity.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

You know what? I would so I'm gonna pause that because I think one way, not to prove it one way or the nature versus nature, are your sister and brother the same as you? So yes. So they were raised in the same way, had the same experiences, and have also had this positive outlook, this can do resourceful resilience, all the things.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

And funny that's amazing. Unfortunately, my brother passed away, but my sister, uh, when we get together, oh, she's a she's uh she's a dynamo too. Oh, she's hilarious. We we're joking about everything all the time. Yeah. And, you know, it's really kind of funny. And then she is in Montana. She has an elk ranch. She basically helped build the ranch with her husband. And she is an has amazing work effort, amazing resourcefulness initiative. Yep. And we use humor to get through it. Sure. Yeah. Because there's a challenge.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

So basically, we should all drop our kids in the forest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

That's that's what I'm getting out of it.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

That's what I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

It's yeah. But they're too late for all of our commands. Well, no, our kids don't like that area. Anymore, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:00

You're mean. But you didn't really like it either.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

No, you didn't.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

You learned from it. Exactly. It would not go so well today. No. No.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

You would probably be called for abuse. Exactly. Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

Your kids see differences too in, you know. Even, you know, my kids would be like, well, where are we going for spring? Great mom. Are we going to the all-inclusive like for our friends? And I'd be like, nope. I gotta work on the marathon, you're coming in and volunteering. We're going to the woods.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

Right. Exactly. Exactly. It's not glamping. No. It's foundational. So can your kids fish and hunt and do all of those things?

SPEAKER_02 44:39

So they don't, they have not, they've been on hunting trips. They have not um uh killed anything. Uh they do, they do fish. Yeah. Um, they all are outdoorsy and they're pretty resilient. They all are self-sufficient at this point. And they're getting through their 20s uh right now and probably like thinking they had to grow up a little harder than their friends. Sure. Yeah. So yeah, it's a little different of a of a situation today, but they're doing well.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

I think about your story and your your dad and your relationship with your dad. And Maria and I both, you know, I could certainly consider myself a daddy's girl, but we've both lost our dads. And, you know, we still talk about our dads to each other and to other, you know, people contemporaries. And I think about this as, and I might be over-romanticizing it, but I think about your story almost as a love letter to your dad because he helped create and shape the woman that you are. And so to have him still in your life and be able to talk about and laugh about. Yeah. Do you remember that time that you dropped as like those kind of things? What a gift to be able to have come full circle and not only have had the experience, but now have the fruit of that experience start to, you know, blossom in your own children. Yeah. Like I just, it's it's so beautiful to me to have that story. Yeah. As hard as it was.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

It's a big journey. It's been a big journey to get here. Yeah. Because my mother was a really big part of, you know, the soft side, but she also is in incredible humor and has really, well, she's doing amazing. She ended up uh going to jail for she was an alcoholic and ended up um getting uh, you know, going to jail, and she has been sober now for I think 25 years. Wow, good for her. And so I got a mom back in you know, later in life, which was great because growing up a lot of times she wasn't really present. Yeah. And and her life was hard too. I mean, our lives were all hard.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

And you know, it's a combination. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

So this I have to go into a related topic, which is how do you what about forgiveness? Is there a lot of forgiveness that had to happen for you in that? And if so, how did you get there? Because that is big all of these things that you're talking about easily for for anyone could turn more into resentment and anger and distance. And you've gotten to the place that you are, which I understand has been a journey for you, assuming that forgiveness has been a part of that. Um, how did you how did you get there?

SPEAKER_02 47:24

It's easy because I didn't want to not have a relationship with either people. It's a choice of, I think, you know, I had a grandmother who spent a lot of time with us and she had she was an unconditional love, pure love. But she was also went through extreme hardship and was very resilient. And literally, I feel like it is a choice of, you know, if you're gonna forgive somebody, I mean, for my mom, it was okay, you're sober and I want my mom in my life. Yes. And me hanging on to some package or baggage of all the other stuff, it doesn't make sense. So I want to drop that off. And I dropped it and I didn't have it anymore because when she made her change, for me, I was just grateful. And I guess it's a having a spirit of gratefulness in life and being grateful for what you do have. Because even today, I mean, if you go through hardship, real hardship, like we went through, you know, even today, like we had many camping trips where water's dripping on you all night and you're in a tent or you're cold or whatever, and Montana winters and growing up surviving. I still am grateful, Arber, for everything I have today. And I'm grateful for everyone. And I just don't hang on to those negative emotions because it doesn't do me any good. I have to move past it. And so that just takes working through on your own. Again, if I'm reading about myself as a character, do I want my character to be down in the dumps and blaming all these other people for how you how what happens in your life when you can choose what happens in your life if you give yourself that power and you're almost taking the power away from yourself by choosing not to be grateful?

SPEAKER_00 49:13

Oh, that's a good point. That's a you're taking the power away from yourself. That's a really good way of putting it. You're becoming helpless if you hang on to it.

SPEAKER_02 49:21

You're helpless mentality.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

Yes, yes. Now, do you think that specifically with your mother, do you feel like the key for you to dropping off that baggage was the fact that she was able and willing to change? Yes. Okay, because uh that I think is really important for a lot of people, which is if your mother hadn't been willing and able to change, would you be in the same place? Would you be able to forgive her? Would you be able to forgive her in the same way or move on in the same way? What are your thoughts on that? I feel like I would I would you protect yourself, right?

SPEAKER_02 49:58

So I would most likely have a relationship of some sort. But the the dirt, like how deep is that relationship? I would be I feel it would be important to have that relationship and tie. But it may be I interact every six months, then that's how I can be the best daughter to keep arm's length, but there's still a relationship.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

But I'm still gonna have love.

SPEAKER_02 50:22

And I'm and because I do feel love is the most powerful key thing for all of us. And if it's every six months and she's not making a change and I can still show her love every six months and not take away from who I am, but it's also part of giving her that spark that I'm still there, a daughter. And if there's that way for her to break free, then it's there. But I didn't have to do that, which was good. But it's just keeping those the distance between those people who are harmful to your ego or your body.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

That protection, I don't think that everybody does that successfully enough. I think there's the, you know, well, they're family. And because they're family, they're entitled to treat you in a new way. Yeah. But as I don't even want to say grown-ups, as just humans, we should have the right to choose one, how we get treated. But, you know, you said a couple of things that I just want to go back to. The gratitude is huge for me. And I don't think that's something that um some like the kids understand as well. You know, I understand you're mad about this, or I understand that you're aggro, whatever it is, but be thankful for the things that you do. Sometimes it's hard to get past like being in that grip and going, no, but I'm in this place, and immediately going, okay, but you know what, I do have this. Yeah. And so hearing you say that and how it contributes to your own positivity. And then the other part of it was the blaming piece is like you hear people and you have these conversations, and there's never a time that they take ownership for what's creating, you know, or what has been created around them. And sometimes for me, I take blame more than I should just because I want to move past it. Yes. You know, I don't want to keep, you know what? I'm I'm I'm sorry that that happened. Yes, got it. Okay, no problem. So we can move on.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

Yeah, you know, I'm avoiding the conflict that is. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

And I'm not conflict avoidant. It's just more like you know that they're never gonna take any kind of ownership and you're gonna be stuck in this space. And I refuse to be stuck in this space. So if it takes me apologizing for something I didn't do, happy to do. I'm happy to apologize. You just want to move on.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

You know, I don't want to get stuck. And that's one of my biggest gifts as well as curse, because sometimes I do take ownership of things that they don't belong to me. They don't belong to me. I'm gonna take it anyway, just because let's go. Right. You know? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Yeah. Well, it goes into accountability. Yeah. So you're saying ownership, but accountability. And I I hear that word more frequently from a professional standpoint, which is how do we get people at work to take accountability for their actions? But it's all related, right? It's in your mentality, it's in how you were brought up, it's in what your belief system is.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

And it's difficult to see when folks don't have that ability.

SPEAKER_01 53:09

And you know what I think about. And it's just my opinion, of course. But I think that some people who have a hard time taking accountability suffered from severe consequences. And so instead of going, I did that, like I didn't do that, I didn't do that. I think I really genuinely believe that's where it came from because they're so fearful. And as a leadership team, we have the responsibility, like you were talking about with the let's take pictures of the damage that's happened and we'll laugh at it later. Leaders don't do that enough. Instead, you know, there's more of that blame, there's more of that instead of making it okay, creating this. You know, we're not perfect right, having that safety. We're not perfect. We weren't all born with instruction manuals. We don't know how to operate all the time. And so saying we're all gonna F up, we're all gonna do the thing, and it's okay. Right. We're gonna learn from that. You know what? I've got your back. Whatever happens, I've got your back, and then we'll figure out how to do it differently next time. And so for people who grew up in a different society, whether it's at home or at work, it's so hard to just go, I did that.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

It's a reprogramming, it's a total reprogramming programming of their brain that needs to happen, which is a really big task on leaders.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

For sure. Yeah, I know it shows up in you know, different value statements and you know, we're gonna take accountability. Right. You know, all of those things. But what what is the leadership doing to help that happen? It's one thing to go, you need to own up to your responsibilities, but it's another thing to go, and if you do, we got you.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

Yeah, yeah. You know, or what about when the leaders aren't able to take accountability themselves? Because that happens too. That happens too, which is then then they're the ones also pointing the finger and not taking it's just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

Yeah, we have to create the culture where safety for all of the reasons to be who you are, to be how you are, yeah, is okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

You know, it's okay. Being okay with the dumpster fires. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 55:02

Well, and that's I tell my people because I always look at it from risk mitigation and I say to them, hey, if if something didn't go right or something got messed up, let's talk about it. Because if somebody else comes to talk about to me about the thing that got messed up and that was bad, it means I have nothing to defend you with. Right. I have nothing to protect you. I have no solution other than that. And I want you. Right. And if I have to hear it from somebody else, then you're you're it may not go as you wanted because you didn't even proactively.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

You were caught by surprise.

SPEAKER_02 55:37

Yeah. And we had one time one of our waivers got really messed up, and about 15,000 runners needed to sign a new waiver. And the only reason I feel like that happened is because of that culture of accountability where the person was able to say, Hey, I made a mistake. This wrong waiver was attached. Can and this is gonna impact this many people. And I'm like, okay, grab so and so and let's get in the conference room and let's uh work our way out of it. And we were able to solve that in three days. But if that person didn't come to me because they were afraid, then it would be a different thing. And for sure. Even now in my role, that's what I'm always telling our team is come to me first. Tell me what's happening. Yes. Because if I get the report, it may not look good for you based on what that other person is saying to you. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 56:30

And there's nothing you can do once the cat's out of the bag or that toothpaste has left the tube. Yeah. Right? It's the same kind of thing. One of the things I try to do when I go into new situations where I'm in charge, so to speak, is, and I probably overuse this statement, like, we don't do brain surgery here. Yes. Nobody's gonna die if we make a mistake. We can fix most of the things that happen. So let's fix it. Exactly. You know, whatever's going on, let's fix it. And so I try to lead with that and start with that so they know that's who I am. And I genuinely mean it. Like I don't care who did what, I just want to fix the problem. And more importantly, I want you to know how to fix the problem. Exactly. So that you can fix it. I don't have to do it. I don't want to be your rescuer. Yeah. That's not my job. So let's figure it out together. And I think that helps, you know, it helps create that culture. But again, you know, we go back to there's a lot of people that don't have us, right? So what are the what are the things that we can put out there and help others? You know, what's helped you, what's helped you, you know, what do we do? What do we do? Because I think it's important. You know, that accountability is I think what's what prevents a lot of people from moving forward in their lives.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

It absolutely does. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 57:42

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

Fear-based. Yes. But there's a really good, well, so the other piece uh that I didn't talk to you guys about was that I was married to a Navy SEAL for I think we were together for about 26 years. Okay. Oh gosh. But between dating and marriage. And um, so that is a whole different mindset I learned along the way. Yeah. Because that's an extreme ownership mindset. Yes. And so that has really, really helped a lot in the uh extreme accountability, integrity, um, and how to move past the things. Yeah. And how to own, take that responsibility, own it, correct it, and move forward the best way possible. For sure. And that's it. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 58:28

So I don't want to psychoanalyze, but it's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

We often joke that we need a couch. There's that, but it's not good enough.

SPEAKER_01 58:35

Yeah. Um, I I think about so you were raised if by a father who was, you know, I want to I don't want to say disciplinarian because you didn't speak to that, but definitely had a specific way that he felt like each of you should experience life. And it was hard work and it was, you know, building these skills. And then you found a man who or ended up with a man who also had a very specific way because of his military background. Yeah. And so it's do you would you say that you gravitate toward more structural, um, not just roles, but you like a structured way of doing things, or are you more loosey-goosey? I both. I have both.

SPEAKER_02 59:19

And that's the other side, is there's like um comfort in the structure. And well, it's also I find that mindset to have integrity, right? And to be accountable. And so I, you know, I think it's really, yeah, I did gravitate towards another military because that's what I knew. And my dad kind of raised us in the, you know, as a military. Absolutely. And so it was really good to have the structure. Um, but at the same time, it was a lot because the other side of me also was kind of pushed down where it created freedom.

SPEAKER_00 59:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:57

Yeah. Yeah. But my goofy, you know, but being goofy, I think I brought that levity to him because he's all boom, boom, boom, boom. Like these things happen no matter what, and it will do X, Y, Z. And then I come into the picture with glitter all over the car, the table, and that's what he needed in his life. And bubbles, and and so you're there were those both those things. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:27

So the kids got the best of both worlds.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

I well, I hope they did. Yeah. What they say now is like, I don't know. Let's have them on next. Yeah, let's have them on next. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:40

Let's get their story.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:41

Well, my daughter will keep you laughing the whole time because she picked up the same humor.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:45

It's just very I mean, Maria and I talk about this all the time. We both really love humor. Yeah, yeah. We love you know we laugh a lot. We we do. We laugh a lot. We love being around other funny people. And to me, humor is a sign of intelligence. You know, somebody that can figure out the right timing to, you know, drop that line. It's just so creative and smart and it's just so attractive. So yeah. We definitely love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

And it helps to not take life too seriously, you know. We talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:17

So humor definitely adds some. It is, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:22

I I do need to ask, do you think you feel joy?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:25

Do I feel joy? Yes. All the time. All the time. Oh, yeah. Even in little things, just little things. All the little, yeah. Would you I a coffee, a cappuccino in the morning makes me so happy and thankful. And that's where I think. Yeah, that gratitude is connected. Yeah. And if you had sparsity in growing up and always remembering to be grateful for what you do have, because if something were to happen, your life circumstances can change in an instant. And so you have to really enjoy what you have.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

I think that's interesting, that statement of sparsity. Yes. And really, because you've experienced that, it's helpful to be able to see all that you do have. And I wonder, you know, we talk about um one of my colleagues, he was on a podcast and he mentioned something that just really stuck with me. And what he said was they were talking about creativity and they were talking about um AI and and all of that. And what he was talking about, he's a psychologist. And he said, you know, because kids aren't bored anymore, there's no boredom. No, there isn't. The creativity is lacking as well. Because in boredom, when you were a kid, you would imagine an entire new life. You would create a game, you would make up something, you know, whatever it was, you had to be resourceful, you had to figure it out. And boredom created that. Kids are not bored anymore. No. And so I think about that when you talk about scarcity and gratitude, they're not necessarily opposing ideas, but one can beget the other. And it's the same thing with again with boredom and creativity. And what else are we missing, you know, by not being able to, or or now having everything? Right. You know, and so again, if we tongue in cheek, say we're just gonna drop kids in the woods with nothing. Yeah, you know, that might not, that's another extreme, but what can we do to bring that back? Because I, you know, I mourn some of that. We do for sure. And some of it to me, where you ask the question about joy, and I hear when you light up, Patrice, you've got such a bubbly, beautiful energy. If I could read auras, like I would think of a beautiful aura. But I mean, you do you have this energy that is positive to you, it just exudes from you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:32

It's magnetic. It is.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:33

Oh, I'm just and we're missing, I don't say we're missing it, but I'm a uh main character going on.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:41

Secondary characters that need joy.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:46

Yes, yes, yes to invent that. But there's also, I think, quiet is the other thing that you know, with saying that kids don't have an opportunity to be bored. Yes, they also don't have an opportunity to be quiet and sit with themselves. Yeah. So they don't. Yeah, because they don't know themselves. They don't know themselves in their what's that language, that thing going on in the head with social media and negativity and bullying and all of that. So it's even like capturing those moments and you know, I that's what church is a good thing for, is being quiet and having to be somewhere. And they hate it because they have to be quiet. Yeah. Right. And they can't look at their own. It's not what they want to do. And yeah, I felt like church was always that opportunity for them to learn how to try to be quiet and seek solace in quiet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:35

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you that that's a good point, just finding quiet places to sit with. I remember so I have a girlfriend who we were raised similarly, definitely the same time period. And then when she started having children, you know, you have the minivans with the fold-down things. And so there was never a time that they weren't watching TV. So the minute they got in the car, the screens went on. They got to school and then they did whatever, they got back in the car and the screens went on. And I mean, I love the fact that they know many of the cultural references that I know because like friends was our thing, and then they watched friends, so that all the girls are friends. But I also think about when I was in a car before all screens and stuff like that, and we would do the license plate game. And we would, you know, do the um A Apple, B, and you'd go around the car, like you know, or I spot i spot exactly. All the things that you did in the car to occupy time that were creative and you know did things to you and formulated relationships versus we're sitting quietly, yeah, you're quiet, but you're still being stimulated in a different way. I miss that.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:37

Yeah, it's it's a shame. Well, and I think that's what we do now with junior achievement. That's really what my huge focus is is what else can I do to help make our corner of the world a little better? Yeah. And our and really trying to find things that the kids get excited and inspired by to see what we can do and how we can affect change. Yes. And I think, you know, it's teaching our kids. Because they're not learning it anymore. And it's not automatically built in because people are so busy. So it's how do we prepare our kids for life? And a lot of these kids aren't being prepared. I mean, my daughter's her friend, her friend went to visit her. She's 20, my daughter's 25. And she was, you know, let's go to the grocery store with her friend to go get food for their, you know, when she's there. And she had to literally call her mom to say, Mom, what kind of cheese do I like? And I feel like that kind of is indicative of our society today. And it's as mothers who we didn't we want to give our kids everything we didn't have. Sometimes we give them too much. And sometimes we help them too much. And I feel like that's a consequence is you have a young lady now who is a young professional who doesn't even know what kind of chi she likes.

unknown 1:06:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:55

And has to call. So that's a great example. I mean, it's because it's it's a small details, it's a small little, but it's an everyday task that hasn't been learning about yourself.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:07

And that's, I think, the thing you have to be. How do you help your kids learn about themselves? That's a huge, I think, success factor. Maybe as I think about it, like that's some of what I had to learn growing up in the wilderness and doing all of the stuff I did is I had to learn about myself, how I could get myself to do things that were uncomfortable. How did I have to think about those things? How did I process things that were hard? How did I overcome those things that are hard? Right. And so those are the things I think that's our kids are missing today. For sure. For sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

As a kid, junior high, so I grew up when it was junior high, it wasn't middle school. And in junior high in Greensboro, North Carolina, I did junior achievement. Um, the whole class did it. And then I volunteered as a junior achievement aide when I worked at City in a second grade classroom. And I was very impressed with the materials that junior achievement provided. I don't know if they still do this, but I had this big cardboard cutout that I brought in, and we had a bunch of stickers, which kids love stickers. I still love stickers. But, you know, and I remember going through, so I was in finance, I was in banking, and so having the ability to talk to second graders, which was a foreign experience, but hearing, you know, depending on the questions that were being asked, you can tell which kids were being prepared in different ways than other kids. And so having the opportunity to kind of bring them to the same place, you know, obviously their teachers were doing that as well. And I had such a small impact. I think it was like for eight weeks, and I was in the classroom once a week. It was wonderful. And so, you know, Maria and I, you know, chit-chat, of course, about different things that we're both working on. And when she mentioned that she was working with junior achievement, I was like, you know, it just really brought some really good memories back because to your point, being able to skill up kids, young adults in ways that unfortunately aren't being taught in other places because of time or whatever, skill set knowledge, what have you, um, I think is is such a cool place to be. And so you're mentioning that you were looking for, you know, a way to give back such a great thing. Because again, the future of America is on the shoulders of these children that were raised in. Yes. And so you have an opportunity to help shape that in a small and large way.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:23

Yeah. And it's a hands-on, and a volunteer like you could change the trajectory for somebody or open their wor eyes to something that you didn't even know, that they didn't even know.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:33

Yes. Yes, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:35

Yeah. I when I know when I first visited uh the facility in in Pennsylvania, I was in awe. I was just really taken by what happens there. And without going into all of the details, found myself feeling like, oh my goodness, I wish I had this as a child. Yes. Uh, I also wish that my son had gone through this when he was younger because now he's aged out, so to speak. Yeah. Um, and just really what a what an amazing kind of mission and opportunity to help kids. So yeah. So I think we're we're ready to kind of wrap up for this conversation for today. But this has been amazing. We're so thankful you you came to talk with us so much in this conversation. Um, I'd love to leave it since we're talking about positivity on a positive note. Uh, can you share something maybe that you're excited about right now that's going on either professionally or personally?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:30

Yeah, I would say like professionally, um, looking what what we're really doing in is looking at again, how are we going to change our corner of the world in Western Pennsylvania? And that would be by hands-on experiences that that students get to um partake in that teach them life lessons. Because I look at it from the perspective of, you know, we know we have sports nailed in America, right? There's club team, elite team, travel team, rec team, but nobody's really doing the in the gap, like what we're doing. So when your soccer career doesn't work out or basketball or whatever, uh, you know, our opportunity is to show them life skills that they will use for the rest of their lives. And I feel like, you know, we will change lives this way. And 100%. When I look at, you know, if we are to build, we want to build another experiential learning center that would be, we already have one from fourth to sixth grade. This would take it from seventh to twelfth grade. This will transform our regions. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:32

And my, so mine was in like I said, junior high. And I remember there being older kids there as well. Like we were brought to the junior achievement site by a bus, and that in itself was an adventure. And so I'd like to give you an opportunity because there are people that I've spoken to that don't know about junior achievement or think it is a local thing. It's national. Yes. Right. And so, would you just tell our listeners a little bit about what junior achievement does, what its goal and mission is? Because I cannot encourage people enough to look into what junior achievement does and either volunteer or get your kid involved. Yeah. So please tell people what it is so that Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:12

So junior achievement really prepares students for a global workplace, right? To enter the global workplace in a in a global economy. So we're a global organization. We've been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize three times. That's amazing. And um we are really focused on uh career connected learning. That's a big uh, you know, a disconnect right now with students coming out of college, not understanding how to assimilate in the workplace. We can start this. The earlier we start it, the better it is. The the uh massive amounts of jobs that need to be uh filled in the next five to ten years is so incredible that we're we're there in America, there are going to be workforce gaps in the trades, uh in manufacturing. Sure. So we're really trying to introduce as many opportunities to students so that they see that there's a multitude of careers that they can choose from. And if they don't want to go to college, they can have an amazing career in a manufacturing facility or skilled trades. And those students likely will be earning six figures by the time they're late 20s. Right. And it's showing those opportunities. It's showing even if you did decide to work and not get your degree right away, those companies will provide tuition reimbursement 100% in some instances. Right. That's amazing. It's career connected learning, teaching them what the difference between an email and a text. How do you dress for work? How do you dress for your boss's barbecue? How do you shake a hand and make a winning impression in the first six seconds? Exactly. There nobody's doing that. So we're filling in that gap. So that's one thing. And the other piece is financial literacy. That is a huge, huge problem in America right now with um students racking up lots of credit card debts as well as student loan debt and not understanding what interest is and how that affects their long-term game. So we're teaching kids how to manage household budgets and giving putting them into simulations in which they're given a career. They may be an engineer and then they have two kids and their household income is 85,000. You they take taxes out, you save 10%, you pay your student loans. Now you go and you make your household decisions and it's becoming Can you sit down with me and we could talk about that. Exactly. Exactly. Well, I see it. I think that would be senior achievement. Exactly. It's like, but we want the nice cars, right? Right. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:37

But what do you mean I can't afford groceries? Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:40

I was with a young girl who had a she she um was selecting her um all the things she wanted and all the things that she had to buy, going bare minimum on groceries and everything to get the car, to get the house. Her her lifestyle that she chose was $365,000. And she couldn't figure out how to make it balance. And I'm like, gotta get rid of the car, gotta get rid of the house, gotta get rid of that. And she was really upset with me. And I said, Do you see how this is working? And she said, Oh my gosh, now I know why my mom says we can't afford things. Oh, it's a good light bulb just able to connect that to as a mom, they don't listen to you, but they will when they're walking through a simulation, they will listen and learn from other people. And so that is something the financial literacy part. There are actually students in certain school districts across America who no longer understand what a coin is and that four quarters equal one dollar. Yeah. And so financial literacy is super, super important. And then um, it's also about uh entrepreneurship. Uh, because we have all these, you know, you can be an Uber driver, you can be you can do so many devices, DoorDash, everything. You can manage your own business. Being an entrepreneur is the fastest way to get out of poverty and to break the poverty cycle in America. And that's where we need to teach kids to feel empowered to go out and do something on their own and that they are in charge of their own life. And that nobody's dictating what they have to do when they're adult, an adult. Of course, they will probably feel that way, but it's the, you know, it's opening their world in a different way and showing them what needs to happen in order to go into a business. And we work with students who have their own businesses and we help connect the dots. We have one patent pending right now. That's amazing. Yeah, he is amazing. He's only a sophomore in high school. That's incredible. That's incredible. Yeah, and we have another girl who went through our professional development. Uh, she is now an intern at NASA. So wow, if you show students, and our kids are super savvy, they're super resourceful, they have an initiative, they don't know how to apply it, they don't know what to do with it. And sometimes their parents don't either. Yeah. But that's something we can help with, right? We help students connect the dots. We help find a mentor for them. We help find, you know, job shadows so they see what a day in the life is like. Right. And we'll have a we had a student who wanted to be a lineman. And, you know, perfect. Uh, when she found out she had to climb ladders and get up high, she's like, oh no. Never mind. Interesting. Isn't that a really great time to figure that out? Yes. Instead of getting that degree, instead of getting that certificate or apprenticeship, you figured this out in high school. Before you go in.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:37

Yeah, the shadowing is so important. Yes. I remember that was really important for me. I didn't do much of it, but I remember thinking I was on a certain path until I same thing. I shadowed at the time I thought it was going to be an attorney. And my dad knew an attorney that he uh had me shadow for the day. And I was like, oh, didn't exactly know that's what attorneys did. And I don't think that's for me. Their only reference is what they see on TV and in the movies.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:01

Yes. And exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:03

But glamorizes that thing. And so I think it would be really useful when we put our description together for this episode. We'll link to the junior achievement national site. Um, we'll do whatever we can because I just I can't say enough that I've had my own personal experience in two different ways as a user and then a volunteer, which makes me really want to volunteer again. And so I will absolutely do that. Um, I just it's so important. So as we wrap up, just know that we'll include more information about junior achievement so that people can find more information out about it. Of course, you can go to the website junior and go look for it yourself, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:40

Use your resources. Right. Junior achievement is in every state. And there's the Jacksonville officers we're in Western PA with Pittsburgh, Johnstown, Erie, and 56 counties, so and northern West Virginia. So uh junior achievement is accessible. It's absolutely every state.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:55

So this was wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:59

Yes. Well, thank you. That was a great conversation, I think. Is there anything else you'd want to leave with before we wrap up?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:07

I I just feel like, yeah, I I really would want to empower other people to develop their main character in life and stop focusing on all the other things and start developing the character you're for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:20

I have a question. Yeah. But I'm thinking, so when are you running for office? Like, when is your campaign starting? My character doesn't like that. My character doesn't like that. My character really wants that to happen. I will be on that part of that campaign plan with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:41

It's always a good story later. Thanks, goodness. Thank you. Okay, thank you so much. We are really grateful to have you here today. It was a lot of fun. So thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you always for tuning in. We hope that you enjoyed this conversation as well. Please, as always, like, subscribe, share, email us if you have questions. Um, and we hope to see you back next time.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:04

And check out junior achievement.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:06

Indeed. Thank you. Thank you. Bye.